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Cannot find specific references to III in the archives. I just tried some Titebond III and had some disappointing results. Any input??

Only time I have ever use TB3 is to glue up binding/purfling before bending, worked fine for that application, don't think I would want to use it otherwise as it seems to dry soft/pliable, there are certainly better choices for standard gluing operations.

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Gwaltney Guitars

T 3 is ok , but concur with greg on using it for gluing binding/purfling

TB 2 and 3 have additives to make them water proof --- Original formula works just fine for guitar making applications --- 50 years, still my favorite.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

By the way, here is what I did. Site for vacuum bagging skate board decks recommended Titebond III, and I had some around. I vacuum-bag laminated some BRW ukulele sides with some thin veneer inside, because the BRW had some minor cracks. Some glue oozed around into the mesh used on the outside to "distribute" vacuum. Upon starting to scrape the dried glue, I found that the glue was popping off, and not really adhered completely to the wood. I had not recently sanded the exterior, but I had sanded the interior before gluing. I hope the inside adhered better.

I've been using Titebond "Extend" and other then sounding like a marital aid.... it seems to work very well where I need longer open time to get things in place and clamped up. Nice stuff.

Like Ken I still like good ole Titebond too for most things where HHG is either not appropriate or not adding any value.

Some very good builders like Elmer's too I've just never gotten around to trying it.

PS: There were some threads back in the 2007 timeframe about T3 failures IIRC. After that we all made a habit of adding the word "original" after listing Titebond.

Here's some info from a forum member who worked for Franklin:

viewtopic.php?p=595379#p595379

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=39973&p=524919&hilit=+extend#p524919

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

Here's a correspondence with Franklin awhile back -- "Extend" is mentioned, in a good way

Last Name: Cierpilowski
Email Address: kencierp@yahoo.com
Company/Organization: Kenneth Michael Guitars

Comments:
Good morning, We have been supplying guitar makers with kits for many years now and recommending Titebond Original (that's what we use in our shop) but frequently we get questioned as to the issue regarding "creep" particularly when it comes to securing an acoustic guitar bridge -- personally in over 40 years I have not seen this condition. However, I was wondering if there is documented evidence or articles which would debunk this concern. Also can I expect the new translucent PVA to perform as good as the Original formula? Thank you in advance, Ken

RE: A Contact Request from the Titebond Website.
contechserv <ConTechServ@FranklinInternational.com> 08/21/14 at 3:03 PM
To
'kencierp@yahoo.com'
Message body


From: Orians, Brianna On Behalf Of contechserv
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:01 PM
To: Roberts, Mark
Subject: RE: A Contact Request from the Titebond Website.

Ken,
We have heard of people concerned with creep of the bridge on their guitars when making them. Titebond Extend Wood Glue has the best creep resistance of all of the wood glues we provide. We do not have documentation at this time to support specific guitar building use of these products. We have had customers call and tell us they are very happy when using Titebond Original when it comes to building their guitar. We have not tested the translucent wood glue against the Original in an application like this. Titebond Translucent loses strength slower at higher temperatures then Titebond Original. Titebond Translucent may work better then Titebond Original on the bridge of the guitar but there has been no test done to support this theory.
Thank You,

Brianna Orians
Technical Service Specialist
Franklin International
614.445.1372

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

As have I over the last 35 years. I have never witnessed the so-called 'creep'.



I used Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue for years because I could buy it locally in 8 ounce bottles so it would always be fresh. After a year, I ditch it. All those years, it seemed to be identical to Titebond. However, Elmer's changed their formula a few years ago, and IMHO it is now too thick. As a result, I only use Titebond Original when I am not using HHG. Titebond is date coded on the bottle.

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John

T3 is cr@p...doesn't fully harden unless put up to about 200*...there are 2 versions of extend...original and T2...use the original as it's the hardest Titbond product there is...

be aware I DO use T3 every now and again...there are times that I figure the creep is a benefit as opposed to a detriment...and as others have noted for purfling and such it is a boon as the heat actually hardens it....

as far as me saying it's cr@p, if you look at my avatar you will note a factory made volute at the start of the handrail...said volute did not match the rail I made (and as a historical note my work was within 1/64" of being perfectly plumb)...this meant I joined the LJ Smith volute to my rail to minimize sanding and forced it into place over the post...as soon as I did that the joint where the uprising arm connects to the spiral of the volute began to creep (and as best I can tell T3 was used because of the rubbery properties I noticed as I tried to sand it smooth)...I mounted the rail post to post on a Saturday and was seriously worried that when I got to work on Monday it would have totally failed...even the movement of sanding the joint just made it worse in many aspects...yeah, part of the problem was a straight cut joint as opposed to a layered joint, and yeah I shot LJ Smith a blistering email about that along with the way out of center holes in the bottom of their balusters...

point being T3 really does creep in a bad way (though as noted I can view it as being a good thing if one wants to keep basic joinery attached as opposed to ripping apart because of stress over time)

I've been using Extend for several years for non-hide glue applications. I love it and it dries hard. I just recently cleaned out an accumulation inside the cap of the bottle and it was rock hard and brittle.

It seems more like the old LMI white but my evidence is completely anecdotal.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I too have been using the Extend version and really like it, it dries hard, funny thing though, it seems to set up quickly, grabs fast, not sure about the "extend" part......but it is my favorite all-purpose glue right now, and holds bridges great.

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Gwaltney Guitars

Does anyone know what the difference in release temps is between Titebond original and Titebond Extend?

I'm considering how TE would do for bridges and if the release temp is so much higher that the risk of bubbling finish in order to get a bridge to release is also high enough to be concerned about.

PS: Good going, a glue thread without WWIII.... (so far...)

So far

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Gee, what about Old Brown hide glue?

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Now you've done it

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

If you go to the Franklin website they have a strange way of describing heat release characteristics of various glues, but in my experience, The temperature to remove a bridge is much higher with Extend. I think the risk is more to the bridge wood than the finish.
Extend is supposedly Original with the addition of wood cellulose. The cellulose gives up water more slowly hence the longer open time. I have never understood why that would give it a higher heat tolerance.

I know I must sound like a broken record, and I'm always open to others ideas/experiences, but all roads seem to lead back to hide glue for bridges.
Every time a PVA glued bridge is removed, a significant layer of glue saturated spruce must be removed w/ it and the instrument is another step closer to a re-top or the trash bin.
The only exception I can think of is if it's a piece of crap on it's death bed and there is an "advanced directive" of DNR. Than you may as well pull out the Epoxy and get one more round out of it.

Thanks David!!

I'll sound like a broken record too then and I completely agree, HHG is pretty amazing stuff for bridges provided that we have the opportunity for a decent wood-to-wood fit.

It's worth noting as well that once again those who came before us seemed to have their stuff together when it came to glue selection.... Of course they also didn't have Titebond this or that but still this is a very good example of tradition still having great value today!